Gestalt therapy observations Transcript

Case No. 1 Session

Role Play: Gestalt Therapy Empty Chair Techniques

Link: https://youtu.be/AJ4Uyf5X6Sw

Transcript

0:19

all right Howie Sandra well we have

0:25

about half an hour together to sign and

0:29

how are you feeling right now with your

0:32

awareness Eve is a bit of a kind of

0:34

situation is different last time um no

0:40

I'm still feeling the same I just yeah

0:46

ah just just a little frustrated at the

0:50

moment that's all

0:52

what is the frustration like for you

0:58

it's just a a tight feeling that I have

1:02

I just um yeah it's very it's difficult

1:08

to put into words but just it just

1:11

doesn't feel okay good so let's shift it

1:15

to your body where in your body you feel

1:16

this tight feeling I think it's it's in

1:19

my chest so that's a hard area to

1:24

feeling it around the heart and what is

1:29

there in that harder you pay attention

1:31

to that that area in your heart but what

1:33

do you find it was sort of things in

1:35

findin yes it it's just a really just a

1:42

compressing feeling just I noticed that

1:47

you have been saying it when you talked

1:49

about your feelings and I would like to

1:52

suggest if you can say ah instead of

1:55

page and see what happens in your body

1:59

so go ahead you actually want me to just

2:03

say okay yes my chest feels very tighter

2:09

I feel very frustrated angry mm-hmm

2:13

angry hmm so that's what's coming up

2:16

frustration anger so what are you doing

2:20

this moment with your anger as you

2:22

essentially right here there chest this

2:26

moment just just accepting it just

2:32

thanks and once you accept of anger

2:39

inside you what else do you do with that

2:41

anger having accepted

2:49

2:53

it's it's just a pop it's just a part of

2:57

me yeah

2:58

notice he was saying it again I am

3:02

firing these with our eye to thing that

3:05

to acknowledge this is you know

3:07

something out there good or what think

3:10

something very strong but it out there

3:12

thank you so it's a safe way to put it

3:15

but you could say I feel angry

3:19

I feel angry and who do you feel angry

3:21

that my ex-husband yes your ex-husband

3:26

hmm

3:27

Sandra having just explored some of your

3:31

feelings around the situation you have

3:33

I'm going to suggest that you speak to

3:37

Jeff on an empty chair this may be a

3:40

little uncomfortable but it helped me to

3:42

facilitate a process where I become an

3:44

observer and you'll be in dialoguing

3:47

with a party that you are actually

3:50

having to deal with and I'll be

3:53

facilitating for you the process and

3:54

then pointing out some of the things

3:56

that we could do to change okay let's

4:00

bring Jeff and your imagination that the

4:02

acid jet were here I'll bring a chair

4:05

okay welcome Jeff I welcome Jeff your

4:10

net and and there Jeff this imagine his

4:16

face

4:17

it looks like how you remember here and

4:21

bringing in your fantasy and then when

4:24

you're ready to just say whatever comes

4:25

to you at that moment this moment

4:28

spontaneous okay okay Jeff I feel very

4:36

frustrated about the situation that you

4:39

have left me and the children in I don't

4:43

think you understand how hard it is at

4:47

times and the things that I have to

4:51

explain to them about about this

4:53

situation it bothers me that you don't

4:58

go out of your way to spend extra time

5:00

with the children and I really believe

5:04

that in the future they they will come

5:10

to to really resent that and and not

5:14

look at you as as their father I

5:17

honestly can't understand why you don't

5:21

want to spend more time with them and

5:25

irrespective of what's happened between

5:27

between us and a

5:29

moving on and and so for that I just

5:32

don't think that that your children and

5:39

my children should really suffer in that

5:41

way I would like them to have us as

5:44

normal a life as possible and and be

5:47

able to to be with both of their parents

5:51

and why you know what is so important

5:55

rather than then wanting to be with them

5:58

it's it's just very hard mm-hmm okay so

6:03

there's a kind of question you

6:05

understand why this happened

6:07

etc right so what next thing we'll do

6:10

your you'll silver there and you will be

6:12

Jeff and see what Jeff can answer to you

6:15

as to where he is at that may be a

6:18

little bit difficult but let's do a

6:22

dialogue

6:23

I see if you were he's not here anyway

6:25

yeah so we'll we'll be having a dialogue

6:28

between Jeff the imaginary chapter yeah

6:31

and you in the present here and now okay

6:34

and what is what is he signing with well

6:37

go ahead I'm suggesting sit over there

6:39

okay the moment you sit over there you

6:42

become Jeff okay

6:44

and whatever jeff says to the statement

6:47

you made go ahead Jeff

6:53

Sandra I know that it must have been

6:56

hard on you and the kids with me leaving

7:00

and it's not that I don't want to spend

7:03

more time with them but I am very busy

7:07

with with work and and a few other

7:09

things that that are going on in my life

7:11

and Sandra my children do mean a lot to

7:16

and you know if I was to spend more time

7:20

with them though when I contact you

7:22

about it I don't want you to be to be

7:25

short and rude and and and I want you to

7:28

be open to to the opportunity okay I'll

7:31

stop you Jeff and say Sandra the

7:35

children really mean a lot to me to say

7:38

that if again the statement Sandra the

7:41

children really do mean a lot to me okay

7:44

so go back to there so check your

7:50

frustration over the house do you feel

7:52

different for about him now that he

7:53

really cares for the children and there

7:56

is a future may be with him in them you

7:59

feel that yeah yeah so have you any

8:02

appreciations to Jeff I know there are

8:06

the hurts and frustration egg but any

8:08

appreciation that he still cares for the

8:10

children of the father

8:15

I really don't have any appreciation for

8:19

that because the reason that the reason

8:22

that you've given that you're busy like

8:25

I'm busy in my life and I still give our

8:28

children priority they still take

8:30

precedence in my life and I just don't

8:33

think that that that that's right good

8:35

and tell them what's her father you

8:37

should be to the children you should be

8:44

proactive in wanting to see them and I

8:50

wouldn't mind if you wanted to see them

8:53

more than than what we have agreed if

8:57

there are times when when you want to do

9:00

something spontaneous and see them then

9:03

then feel free to to contact us and and

9:06

and see if it's okay

9:13

good good good come over there Sal look

9:16

at that a very good idea good offer is

9:19

you Jeff are you prepared to take that

9:20

off wrong for the kids sake

9:27

well Sandra I'm glad that you said that

9:30

and I think that something that I could

9:36

look at but when I contact you I don't

9:41

want you to be to be short with me or

9:45

rude I I want you to consider it and and

9:49

to be honest yeah

9:51

great cover there so are you aware

9:54

what's what's going on here

9:56

the contracts happening okay aware that

9:59

that seems into parties seem to be

10:01

agreeing began to agree to something

10:02

important that's the children so

10:06

children will not suffer they will

10:07

actually benefit from that agreement if

10:09

you two can really really come to a

10:13

mutual agreement to what how we gonna

10:16

take care of the children mm-hm

10:17

because this thing no matter how in my

10:19

view no matter how people live together

10:21

as a couple

10:22

separate together the contract life

10:26

countries I'm still my father too much

10:28

Ilyas another dimension if we could only

10:30

get that anger out frustration out we

10:34

can come to an agreement as to how we're

10:36

going to work together even we don't may

10:37

not live together we will live for the

10:40

with the kids they'll be happy that make

10:43

sense to you yes ah

10:46

there's a but but how do i but it's a

10:50

question good good good this is in a

10:56

counseling session and he hasn't really

11:01

participated in in forming this contract

11:04

yes but you hear that this happened for

11:06

you yes and you've done it so is there

11:09

something that you now you have that you

11:11

can begin to negotiate with him

11:14

no matter how he is there's a now new

11:17

realization that the children need that

11:20

mother how's that for you yeah maybe I

11:24

just need to to let him know that and

11:29

just extend the invitation of having my

11:33

talk about that yeah member yeah and

11:36

you're good at that

11:37

you're very good watching you working

11:40

here you're very good at creating

11:42

contracts very clear about what you want

11:44

it's a question of how you can the two

11:46

parties can get to that agreement

11:49

together what do you think great that's

11:53

this is a rehearsal for what's going to

11:55

happen okay

Case No. 2 Session

GestaltTherapy Role-Play - Two-Chair Technique with the Internal Critic

Link: https://youtu.be/X4OEhMWbSss

Transcript

0:13

Erica how you doing today good thank you

0:16

you're doing good

0:18

I was hoping today we could revisit the

0:23

two chair technique we used it a few

0:26

sessions ago you might remember and I

0:29

know in the last session I felt like we

0:33

were kinda getting to a point where we

0:35

identified a conflict you know what I'm

0:38

referring to kind of between part of me

0:43

that wants to settle down but then part

0:45

of me that also wants to pursue my

0:46

career so we have a part that wants to

0:51

settle down at a part that wants to keep

0:56

going with the career so for this to

1:00

chair what I'd like to do is in the

1:05

chair or you're seated now this will be

1:08

the emotional self in this case the side

1:16

that wants to pursue the career yep you

1:19

might I saw before that seems like your

1:21

medicine that's what I really want yes

1:22

they're more emotionally connected

1:24

that's what yeah that's what I want

1:25

so this will be the side of you that has

1:30

the needs and the wants and or the

1:33

emotion so that's who you'll be in this

1:36

chair that makes sense yep in the other

1:39

chair let's have the that critic that's

1:44

inside that internal critic this

1:47

advocating

1:49

for settling down for getting married

1:54

for having kids in a way it represents a

1:57

societal pressure do those two sides

2:05

seem separate to you yeah you feel like

2:12

you can be the emotional self here an

2:15

internal critic there so I think you

2:22

remember how this work she'll be you'll

2:24

be talking to in this case the internal

2:27

critic all right so there's no critics

2:28

on the side of settling down getting

2:30

married and then when you're ready to

2:34

have the critic respond you'll switch to

2:37

that chair and respond to the emotional

2:40

via trivalent and wanting son make sense

2:45

okay so whenever you're ready go ahead

2:48

and speak directly to the internal quick

2:59

I want to finish what I'm doing and I

3:01

want to finish what I started

3:04

I've worked so hard on my career path

3:09

and I'm so close to finishing and I want

3:15

to finish for me we want to accomplish

3:20

those goals that I've set for myself

3:23

and it's something I'm passionate about

3:31

so you've made your statement yeah you

3:32

ready to switch ok good switch tell you

3:35

the internal critic

3:40

there's always time to pursue a career

3:47

but I need to focus on what's expected

3:54

of me at this time I'm the best age for

3:59

having kids I have a loving boyfriend

4:03

who is ready and wants to get married

4:06

and settle down and you are being

4:12

selfish by just following a path that

4:17

you can't aim at any time

4:21

that's an internal critic

4:24

accusing the emotional side in this case

4:28

the career side been selfish I noticed

4:32

your posture it's very linear and you

4:36

upright

4:37

I noticed you kind of put your hand down

4:39

a little bit when you were we're talking

4:42

try to think of the eternal critics body

4:47

movements try to act that out a little

4:50

bit

5:02

I think it's accusation 'el you know I

5:04

think I would like

5:07

I just want it to like tell the

5:11

emotional part that it's being stupid

5:13

that it's you know you're you're you're

5:19

not acting in the best interest of

5:20

everyone else it's not like jump at it

5:27

you know want to jump it the emotional

5:30

side yeah all right so that's the

5:34

internal critic be ready to respond back

5:36

to the internal critic from the

5:37

emotional side

5:41

yeah okay so the internal critic has

5:47

just called you selfish and on other

5:49

things

5:50

this is a response

5:56

I feel like I'm being attacked

6:00

and I don't think it's wrong to think

6:05

about myself and what I'm truly

6:08

passionate about

6:13

let me interrupt you so your hands

6:15

they're pointing back toward the career

6:17

emotional stuff what can you do with

6:21

your hands that really embody what you

6:23

want to communicate to the internal

6:26

critic is there anything else to do I'll

6:27

do right now the point toward you

6:35

they're pointing towards me to protect

6:39

myself from what the critics is saying I

6:46

just want to like push that back towards

6:48

critic so continue and have used that

6:51

motion there you're you're pushing the

6:53

internal critic away okay so I don't

7:01

need I don't need to feel guilty you

7:04

know I don't need to feel selfish

7:14

if you're wanting to follow my dreams

7:22

all right just the internal critic have

7:23

something to say back

7:28

7:30

I think the critic

7:35

okay see if you've now pushed the

7:38

emotional side to push the critic away

7:42

okay

7:43

and I think the critic the critic feels

7:47

like it understands where the emotional

7:54

side of me is coming from you know a guy

7:58

can recognize why it's so important and

8:03

like why working so hard is it's worth

8:06

that you know a sense of accomplishment

8:08

that's going to come with it how it's

8:10

gonna in the long run help provide for

8:16

all these extra things that I wanted my

8:19

family in the teacher I can see that all

8:24

right so internal critic is that hands

8:28

down here is the internal critic you see

8:32

an internal critic less angry less

8:36

assertive

8:38

let's pushy us pushing that's pushy yeah

8:43

it's not

8:45

not as critical truthfully he's just

8:50

I feel like the pressure isn't weighing

8:55

on either other's shoulders all right so

9:01

the critic is more separated now maybe a

9:05

little bit but also has a different

9:08

outlook more quiet it's not like always

9:12

yelling at me because I think it

9:17

I mean sometimes it might still say

9:19

something but not in like the urgency

9:22

that it had before so the the critic has

9:27

lost some of us figure determination

9:31

yeah so move back to the emotional and

9:35

then just space toward me so what have

9:40

you would be gained here through your

9:45

communication back and forth the entire

9:47

I feel calmer I feel like you know the

9:54

critic is has always been a part of me

9:57

but that part of me

10:02

it's more like you know it's it's not as

10:05

assertive it's not as you know intense

10:11

right now it's calm and I think that the

10:15

emotional part of me was able to win the

10:19

argument first thing you know we're just

10:22

because that's what I want so at the end

10:28

of this conflict after we split into two

10:33

parts here Dan this conflict is it

10:36

eventually a decision it's a decision to

10:41

pursue a career or to settle down do you

10:45

feel you've gained more clarity then to

10:48

see yeah because I feel like I you know

10:51

I can stay on my decision is and has you

10:56

know has been to stay on my career path

10:58

but now I feel less guilty for doing it

11:02

that's that's really been your decision

11:05

all along but the internal critic was

11:09

harassing you this whole time

11:11

yes harassment

11:14

and today you were able to kind of shove

11:18

that term critic back a little and allow

11:22

that trick to see how strong what you

11:25

feel what the decision you've made

11:27

yeah is that I could very much stuff do

11:31

you feel this helpful technique for you

11:33

yeah I do I you know I think that

11:37

separating the two sides helped me

11:40

realize which one felt stronger so it

11:46

was able to give you some clarity yes

11:49

great all right well let's uh once you

11:53

reflect on what's happened here between

11:56

now the next session is kind of a lot

12:02

happened and it seems like youth gain

12:06

clarity for your decision and then we'll

12:08

pick up with the next session let's see

12:10

how things have progressed with see if

12:12

that internal critic is still harassing

12:14

you or if it kind of stays back and if

12:18

you have more piece of the decision the

12:20

Cenacle plan yeah

12:22

thanks Eric I'll see you next week

12:24

thanks

Case No. 3 Session

Gestalt Therapy demonstration: Letting go of being in charge...let mecarry your weight

Link: https://youtu.be/Dhway-iY0Bk

Transcript

0:00

Okay. Alright, here we go. Here we go. Putting on seatbelts. Say the Lord's Prayer.

0:10

Did you use to say the Lord's Prayer or was that said under some circumstance that was?

0:17

Oh, I just feel like I might be taking of an airplane and I used to always the Lord's Prayer when I would take off.

0:26

Right Right. So, you used to say that taking off in airplane. Right. Only prayer I had to memory, so

0:32

Right, yes. Probably for most of us. Right. And did that help, when you?

0:38

Oh, absolutely. Yeah And what was the context for you of learning that prayer or using it originally?

0:48

Learning it originally? Well, I'm asking was that was that comforting for you in other circumstances when you first

0:55

learned it, or that was just something that you've used to, kind of, comfort yourself? I'm saying comfort, I don't know how you describe it.

1:03

Probably, it was from childhood, probably first experience of, like, learning a mantra Right.

1:09

you know, without really realizing I was learning a mantra just to, sort of, calm the mind and remove, you know, fear, obstacles, insecurity. Just, you know, use a mantra of some kind

1:22

and prayer seems to work. So it's not the only thing I use now, but I definitely used

1:28

that for many years. Yeah And it is a good one.

1:33

Mhm. I say �it', but not that I've used that, but as a child, that was something my father

1:40

used, you know, as a vehicle for that Really? So, I have an association with it as that, sort of, comforting thing.

1:47

Interesting. You know, I guess there is something very much about Lord's Prayer that has that capacity

1:52

to be comforting and soothing and mantra-like.

1:59

Mhm. Yeah. So, here we are.

2:05

Yeah. About to take off from the plane. Get the Lord's Prayer going.

2:11

Yeah. But I have you know, didn't realize we'll do anything like this, I have no thoughts

2:20

on it whatsoever, it's interesting. So, where should we go? Up into the air?

2:30

Yeah, someplace far and distant, yeah. High above.

2:37

High above. Yeah. So, we take off in the plane and we're high above it all and you got that amazing perspective

2:45

you get from the plane window. Right. We're all in theory. Yeah Well, there's some distance, there's some

2:51

Yeah. distance from things Mhm. a little bit. The cars and the people are little dots bellow.

2:59

Mhm So, what do you see from your window, your plane window?

3:05

Right now? Just clouds It feels very heavenly, though.

3:11

Okay, so we're up in the clouds Uh huh

3:17

Heavenly clouds It's dreamy, you know, I just feel dreamy and right now, I guess, just that visualization

3:25

is just very dreamy and, sort of, like expansive too, because you can just, you know, let your

3:30

thoughts wander Yeah, wherever they like to go and think about whatever you like to think

3:37

about, wherever they take you. Yeah So, I invite you just to have a little dreamy, you know, sequence right now, just

3:46

allow yourself to go with those thoughts and let them take you wherever they take you and

3:51

have a little, kind of, dream up there in the clouds, see where you go, just completely

3:59

spontaneously. I probably have to close my eyes to do it.

4:05

Okay. Because I'm so visual. Right. But I'm still in the room. Still in the room Do you want to do that? Do you want to close your eyes and go on that

4:12

little trip? I think if I'm going to go on a dream I probably have to.

4:23

Sometimes it's nice just to drift off like that. Mhm. Let yourself go without a particular destination in mind.

4:31

Oh, I do it quite often. Yeah Okay. Is there a familiar space you go or do you find yourself?

4:38

No. just not really. Just nature usually. You know, going into nature something green

4:45

and just calm, the beauty of nature, natural surrounding.

4:55

And if you just let yourself go now, where do you find yourself heading, where does your

5:01

fancy take you?

5:08

I, something takes me into my body right now.

5:23

Okay. Where in your body are you going? I would say my, you know, this is a heart, there's a theme here, so, it's definitely

5:32

my heart, I feel my heart beating Mhm. which and I don't always feel a heart beating.

5:38

And what do you feel around your mouth? Well a little dehydrated.

5:47

Mhm. So, yeah. My head, too. I have a little bit of a pounding in my head, just from a lingering

5:59

headache, but that's probably contributing.

6:13

Definitely have a sense of vibrating and the physical body.

6:27

Mhm. Where do you feel the vibrating? In my whole body.

6:36

Is that a good feeling or�? Yeah, it's a good feeling, it's a reminder to stay in the body, but it feels good to

6:48

be in the body, not just in the head.

6:53

Yeah. So, your lips are a bit dry.

7:03

Mhm. And I'm also inviting you to pay a bit of attention to your mouth and, you know, just

7:10

notice the way that you hold your mouth and what that feels like to you if you bring your

7:18

awareness there. Yeah, it does feel a little tense. Mhm. So, if you were to increase the tension in your mouth, how would you do that, if you

7:27

were to exaggerate that? Probably, pucker my lips up or something.

7:36

Mhm. Mhm. Well, if you're willing to do that, yeah, just do that and see what feelings that brings.

7:46

Well, it feels, kind of, funny, but

8:07

And then the reverse happens - you feel like smiling or laughing afterwards. Mhm.

8:13

Yeah, there's tension in my face, for sure. Where do you feel that tension?

8:19

Well, I feel it in the muscles of my face but it could be coming from my, you know,

8:25

I do have a slight headache, so, that's assisting it. Pay attention to the muscles in your face. Tell me where where exactly is that tension

8:35

in your face. Tension be coming from, like, my cheeks and then around my eyes.

8:47

Mhm. So, just pay attention to your cheeks and see if you can notice where exactly in your cheeks the tension is and what it feels like.

9:00

It's coming from the center of cheeks, right here.

9:14

If you were to exaggerate that tension, just slightly, how would you do that right now?

9:25

Again, just, like, pulling in my face or something.

9:33

Just try that and see what's that like.

9:42

It's interesting What do you feel when you do that?

9:51

I was thinking, I really feel the flesh in your mouth and muscles in your face.

10:00

Like, if you pull pull in a bit like that, like you're doing

10:06

Mhm. What is the, kind of, stance? What is that stance? What, like. What, kind of, things

10:15

would you say in that position or what what do you express when you do that?

10:24

I'm not really sure. You mean, how does that translate to behavior?

10:38

Yeah or feeling or Like, if I do that, if I pull in my cheeks and

10:44

Well, it's, like, obviously you can't speak.

10:49

What else is there in that?

10:56

Maybe worry Yeah So, worry, kind of, feeling.

11:03

Mhm. What, kind What would you be worried about if you were doing that?

11:18

Well, it's almost like worry is second nature.

11:27

Oh, okay. Yeah. So, that's just a, kind of, automatic It's a natural way of being, like, just being okay with everything, but also worrying about

11:37

everything at the exact same time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I understand something about that myself.

11:42

Mhm. So, tell me about your version of that underlying layer of being of worry.

12:00

Probably not being sure, you know, about not being sure of things. So, it creates doubt

12:08

or a worry. Like, just not being able to accept things at face value or what I know to be

12:17

true, just second guessing. Right. Kind of, like, doubt or

12:23

like, oh, what can go wrong type thing. Right And then worrying about what can go wrong instead of just going -Well, what can go right?-

12:30

Right So, you practiced that for a long time, that kind of?

12:38

Probably Probably you know yeah. Sometime, you know, you I think, I probably used it

12:49

in my work. We get clever at Right. using that.

12:55

Well, you these are your natural tendencies, so you try to find a positive outlet for them.

13:00

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And where does that work? Tell me how that works at work. Well, when you're planning events, you see the event, but you can also see everything

13:10

that can go wrong. Oh, absolutely. And then you try to plug all the holes. Yeah

13:16

and fix it before there's, you know before there's a fire. Put out the fire before there's

13:22

a fire. Yeah Absolutely, that would be help you be successful. I mean, that's that's my problem

13:28

when I'm planning things is that I don't do enough of that and, so, I constantly not anticipate

13:36

the Yeah. stuff and constantly running into problems because of that. Mhm.

13:41

So, yes, that makes perfect sense to me as a very useful Right. way of being.

13:46

But I see that I I do it in everything now. It's, like, what can go wrong? You know? I

13:53

try to fix it before I get there or try to fix it before or, you know, offer advice that

14:01

can fix something Yeah instead of just saying �That sounds great.-

14:06

And where did you learn to do that? Well, it's interesting that you brought up father, because probably father energy. But

14:16

my mother is a big worrier, too. So, probably from both of them. Both of them? Yeah.

14:22

Both of them were worriers. Mhm. Right. Okay. So, you got a good dose of Mhm. education. How to worry.

14:28

How to worry. And what was their particular style of worrying? Did they have different styles? Hm let's think about this. Well, my, yeah, my father was more disciplinary in style.

14:41

Mhm Or extremely old fashioned, conservative, so

14:46

So, what's the what's the disciplinarian style of worrying like? Well, you know, even before anything happens you're punished.

14:55

Oh, okay. In other words, very strict rules and guidelines.

15:01

Alright, so, something will go wrong Everything will go wrong. So, you might as well Unless you got lots of rules.

15:07

So, you might as well get punished in advance, because we know it will go wrong, we know you'll do something with And here's the punishment, just in case.

15:12

Right. You didn't know what the punishment would be. Right. That's really preempting things going wrong. Punishment before things go wrong.

15:22

Yeah. Okay. We laugh about it now but I don't imagine that that was easy to live with.

15:28

Well, I mean, I well, it just comes up for me, like, I was the oldest, so, he would say, you know, -Okay, we're leaving now, you're in charge of your brothers and sisters. If

15:36

anything goes wrong, it's your fault.- Wow. Okay. You know, so you become the leader, the disciplinarian, everything, in charge of everything.

15:46

So, he was training you for event management career. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. Leadership role.

15:52

So, how old were you when you were in charge of everything? I don't remember a time when I wasn't.

15:59

Right. Okay. Yeah. So, now I understand a little bit more about your worry, because it's one thing you being

16:06

adult Right. and be in charge of everything, and be in charge of event, and be paid for it, and to have some

16:12

Right. kind of, back up staff, and to have some knowledge and some experience Mhm. because at least you've got some reference points, and it's another thing to be a child

16:21

and not have that knowledge and not have the emotional ground Mhm. and have the critical, disciplinarian voice in the background

16:29

Right. anticipating you're going to do it wrong anyway and the punishment beforehand because that

16:34

will go wrong. Yeah, then it makes sense, when you're an adult. That's right. So, that sounds like a very overly stressful experience as a child.

16:46

Yeah. Do you have that, kind of? I guess so, but I was I don't know Let it just become part of the ground, that was just how it was

16:54

Yeah. And you don't remember a time that it wasn't that way. Right. And if that's your reality, then that's just the way that it is.

17:00

So, hence that worry becomes imbedded in your Right. being. Yeah, I can understand that. It becomes part of you, because you've you learned very

17:09

early on to be concerned about what was going on and in a way that was, sort of, what we

17:16

would call, an adult concern Mhm. Like, worrying at a level that, you know, doesn't give you much childhood space to just

17:25

relax and That's true. play and drift on the clouds Right.

17:31

You know, that's the very childhood, kind of, daydream that isn't a part of that worry

17:37

space. Maybe that's why I can daydream so well. Yeah wow Because, that's where I go to be a child, probably.

17:43

That's right. It's great, you've got that capacity somewhere. Mhm. Because down on Earth, it's pretty damn serious.

17:50

Yeah. Nuts and bolts Yeah And you're in charge Yeah. And you're responsible, and if things go wrong

17:55

Yeah. it falls on your shoulders. Yeah, you have to constantly be in charge of organizing everything.

18:04

And how many kids were there? Well, there were just four of us total. So, you're responsible for three other kids?

18:11

Mhm. And what was the age difference between you and them? With my brother one year and my sisters, one, like, three years and the other one five years.

18:21

Right. So, they were very close in age. Mhm. Okay. So, it wasn't so much like younger siblings, it was more like siblings that were

18:30

Kind of my age kind of your age. So, did they accept your direction or did they, kind of, not?

18:38

Uhm yeah, pretty much they did. Right, okay. Yeah. I was pretty tough.

18:43

Right And you laugh at yeah I laugh because they still look at me that way, you know, like �Oh, here she comes

18:49

with all of her rules.- Yeah. Well, you learned that from your dad Yeah. you know, and that is a useful way to operate, if you're in charge and responsible, is to

18:57

have rules and to be strict about it, otherwise it's chaos. Yeah. Sometimes I feel like we're stuck being children, though, instead of, like, now I

19:05

just want to be adult with them, you know? I want to have an adult relationship. Right But I feel like we're stuck being children.

19:13

Well, you're stuck. In with knowing my relationship with them. Yeah

19:18

And their relationship with me. But, you weren't the child in relationship to them, you were the organizer child Right.

19:24

in a little bit the adult role. I was the adult, yeah, maybe I want them to be more adult with me. Right. Yeah.

19:29

Or maybe you could be a little more childlike with them. Yeah, but One of the two. Yeah. But you're stuck in the

19:35

Yeah. parenting role, kind of Yeah, rules, all the you know, organizing. Yeah, organizing

19:41

Yeah. Yeah. You laugh when you say that. Well What's the feeling that comes up? I see you biting your lip, there's feelings there.

19:49

Well, it's, I mean, it's it's difficult, but But? I laugh at it because it is what it is.

19:57

Right. Yeah. Well, that's a way of, sort of, coping or distancing. Right. I'm interested, though, what's the feeling when you bite, what's the what's that little

20:04

feeling that, sort of, pops up? Probably just wishful thinking that it wasn't that way.

20:12

That's the thinking. Yeah. Just a little on this track, when you bite your lip, there's a feeling there. Understandable

20:17

feeling. Mhm. I'm interested in the feeling.

20:23

It feels difficult it feels hard. Yeah Hard, difficult Mhm.

20:29

Those are the words which make sense to me in that context. Mhm. Yeah, that was difficult for you and remains difficult for you.

20:37

Mhm. You just want to be the kid or want to be the sibling or play or have some companionship

20:43

on the similar level that Yeah. you missed out on that, you still do.

20:50

Probably, yeah. Probably? Well, I mean, now that you're bringing it up and I'm Yeah.

20:55

yeah Well, that's what focusing on it, yeah. I'm understanding. Mhm. So, that's a lifetime of missing out.

21:05

Mhm. Yeah. I don't even know what I missed out on, really.

21:13

Right. That's the �probably'. Yeah. Yeah. You'd, kind of, like something different, but But I don't know what that looks like.

21:19

don't know how to do it or Yeah. How do we get there? How do we get there yeah Again, here I go with the organizing.

21:26

Yeah How do we get there? Well, what if you were to just, you know, what if I was to do

21:34

the organizing right now of that �How do we get there?'? And you could just take a,

21:39

sort of, role of, I don't know, like like, following or being supported in some way,

21:46

where you didn't have to blaze the trail or make the decisions or set the rules. You know,

21:54

what if what if I did that right now and? That would feel comfortable.

22:00

Yeah Mhm. Okay Well, I'd like to do that, I'd like to step into that with you

22:05

Okay. a little bit. So so, that means that I need you to let me do that, to allow me to do take

22:18

that, as much as you say that would be nice, I need to both step into that

22:23

Uh huh and have your your, kind of, energetic agreement. Like, I need you to let go a little.

22:28

Yeah. You know what comes up for me is that then I need to see you as, like, in a father role, you know?

22:33

Yeah It's, like, you need father energy to do that. Right. Okay. But the father energy for you is very strict and very

22:39

Right. disciplinarian and Yeah. it's not it doesn't look like something else, doesn't look like something a bit soft or

22:45

a bit caring. It's got to be Well, again, that's my experience so Yeah

22:50

for me, that is caring. Yeah Yeah. I get that. Yeah.

22:55

So, I'm going to invite you, if it's possible, let's see, to maybe step outside the familiarity

23:02

Mhm. That's the way that you could relax. Mhm. Somebody's really just in that vertical, definitive, you know, almost preemptively disciplinarian

23:14

mode and in that place you can, sort of, relax, because it's been taken care of even there's

23:20

maybe a little fear there with the getting punished or something, but nevertheless that's the familiar ground. So, if it's possible

23:28

Mhm. you know, I'm interested in let's seing if we, you and I, can explore a different kind

23:34

of experience where you might let go a little, allow me to be in that father role, even though

23:41

I don't look or sound or act anything like your father, because you know what that looks like.

23:47

Mhm. So, I'm me, I'm different, I do fathering in a different way. I can, kind of, be strict

23:53

but not in a way that your father is. I'm not to that degree. So But maybe we can start

24:02

with that, because that's a little bit more familiar to you, you know? Okay. So, that that would mean I need to step into being a little more directive and tell you

24:09

what to do or how it's going to go or something. Right. Because that's the familiar territory

24:14

Exactly. and then we'll, sort of, see what how we can take a step into something unfamiliar.

24:20

Okay. Okay, so, I'm the first thing I want you to do is I want you to pay attention to your

24:28

face, because that's the place where you hold the worry and do the familiar thing, because

24:33

if you're going to if you're going to allow me to take the lead, the first thing that's required that I need from you is for you to relax you face.

24:43

Okay. And and and, like, actually really let it go. Like, really

24:48

Mhm. Let my jaw go go into your body. Don't just the jaw, the cheeks, the mouth, all the things that you

24:54

do that are familiar to you. I want you to let that go. I'm giving you a direction to

25:04

let that go. Okay. Mhm. You know, it's not just inviting you, I'm directing you. And any suggestions on how to do that?

25:11

Right Uhm yes, that you I need you to pay attention to your face, like, you really go

25:18

into the awareness, particularly around your cheeks Mhm. and in here Yeah.

25:23

around your mouth, because those are the that's the... all the holding places that you do.

25:29

And what I want you to do is I want you to, like, firstly juts Do mouth exercises?

25:34

Yeah, kind of, get like, get into your face a bit, get into your cheeks, like feel the Mhm.

25:40

this, kind of, the mouth and the cheeks and Mhm. get into some awareness there. That's right. Jaw yeah.

25:48

Yeah. Lion Yeah, all that stuff. Yeah, whatever, you know And I'm giving you both the direction

25:57

and the freedom to start not making faces, like like even yeah

26:04

Yeah. Whatever, spontaneously Exercises to release it. That's right. Feels like the the thing that you'd like to do with your face and just experiment

26:16

moving the face and Mhm. you know, making any kind of face, doesn't matter how it looks, just

26:22

It'll look funny on the cam. Yeah, that's right. Well, I'll be funny too, you know, I'll do it with you, you know, so

26:29

we'll do it together. It feels good, because, you know, I've got my stiffness there too,

26:36

so Yeah, definitely, even in the neck and every place.

26:42

My cheeks, yeah Mhm. So Okay. And, yeah, make sure you're breathing at the same time, let the energy move through your

26:49

body. Yeah. Yeah, the stiffness goes in the neck. Stiffing the neck, yeah.

26:55

I've got my stiffness in my neck too. Okay.

27:00

It's good. Okay. And I want you just to, like, even with your hands, pat your cheeks and

27:11

loosen all that up open your mouth. breathe, make sure you're breathing, get that energy moving, you know

27:25

Mhm. Yeah, a massage would be good right now.

27:39

Yeah. Mhm. Yeah Massage would be good. Well, I'm thinking of something right now to to facilitate this

27:52

process with you. If this is okay with you Mhm. .. I want to check out each step with you, which is that I could just try patting your

28:00

face a little. Is that okay? Sure. Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to move a little closer. Mhm.

28:06

And I'll try doing that for you. Okay. You tell me, you know, if it's too hard or too

28:27

fast or too slow.

28:37

It feels good.

28:44

Okay. That's right yeah What's your experience as I do this?

28:59

It's definitely a feeling a softening experience.

29:09

Mhm. But at the same time it still feels strong.

29:26

Mhm. Good.

29:35

Relaxing. Mhm. Okay. Yeah, I want you to relax your face.

29:56

Mhm. Keep breathing and just take that relaxation into your neck

30:01

.. your shoulders

30:08

So, let yourself go into that peacefulness.

30:17

The once you can just let go, you don't have to be in charge.

30:27

Yeah that's right

30:34

Okay, so, just be with your body.

30:51

Yeah. What are you feeling right now?

31:14

I'm feeling like I the being in charge is fatiguing.

31:20

Yeah, of course. Exhausting. Yeah.

31:25

And How do you know when to not be in charge?

31:33

Well, right now Mhm. I'm directing you not to not be in charge. to be in charge. Right now Yeah, you're telling me to

31:39

I'm telling you. Mhm. So, let's just stay with the right now. Okay. So, right now I'm telling you let go.

31:47

This is a time right now, it's one of those times to not be in charge. Not only do you

31:56

not have to be in charge, I don't want you to be in charge. I want you to let go.

32:06

I want you to take this opportunity to just feel your body releasing and release all the

32:14

responsibility and the weights that go with it right now, because I don't need you to be in charge. I'm happy to be in charge. And what do you experience?

32:23

I feel like it's very peaceful.

32:45

Mhm. Good.

32:53

It's very peaceful. And I'm happy about that.

33:01

Yeah, I want you to have the space to feel that peaceful experience right now.

33:10

It's like full permission.

33:19

And what happens as you look at me right now? I feel happy and trustful.

33:25

Good. I'm glad. Mhm. Yeah. I'm I'm really I want you to have this experience of feeling happy and peaceful and

33:38

trustful and Mhm. you can let go. All the heaviness just came over me.

33:49

Yeah Tell me about that heaviness. I don't know yet just became heavy.

33:56

Well, I imagine there's lots of feelings that might come up as you start to allow yourself

34:04

to relax. Right. Other feelings, as well, whatever they are.

34:10

Because when you're in charge, there's not much space to really feel much, you've got to marshal your energy and

34:17

Mhm. set that aside and organize other people and maybe tend to their feelings, but, you know,

34:23

once once you're able to let go of that and not have to be in charge, then all sorts of

34:28

feelings come up, whether they're peaceful feelings or heavy feelings. That's okay. Yeah, it's funny, because it just feels heavy on one side of my body.

34:38

Mhm. So, lean on that side a little bit. Let yourself Mhm.

34:44

lean towards the heaviness.

34:56

Now what I'm going to do, if it's okay with you, is I'm going to come around that side

35:11

of you and sit next to you on that side and maybe let you lean against me. Is that alright?

35:21

Mhm. Okay. Just stay there, I'm going to come around, I'm going to organize this.

35:35

I'll come right next to you I'm going to sit next to you and I want you to just, kind of, lean against me.

35:42

Mhm. Like you know yeah, that's it. Mhm. Good. That's right, just let yourself breathe mhm yeah, that's it.

35:48

Yeah, I'm happy for you to lean against me. It feels good. How does it feel to you?

36:07

Feels happy, feels good. Yeah just let yourself lean as much as you like. You can rest your weight on me, that's

36:18

fine. Yeah, that's right. Get really comfortable. I might go to sleep. No, just, you knowlet yourself rest your weight.

36:24

Mhm. Yeah that's right. I'm trying to relax Mhm. the tension in it yeah.

36:30

See if you can let you head be a little heavy. Your head feels very light, so, see if you

36:35

can give me its the weight, I'm pretty strong, I can handle the weight of your head. Yeah

36:57

I feel something in my heart, like a, kind of, sweetness. What do you feel?

37:14

I feel the warmth

37:28

I like that you're trusting me.

37:37

Yeah, I feel a little, sort of, protective of you and

37:52

Yeah, it feels like something is circling my heart in a protective manner.

37:58

Mhm Mhm. Good. So, just breathe into that, be present with this experience. Yeah, that's right. I'm just relaxed into that. Yeah, that's that.

38:04

Yeah, it's good to relax into that. I'd like you to do that. It feels good to breathe

38:16

Yeah deep.

38:22

Yeah, once you let go of that worry a little and the responsibility, you can.

38:32

Mhm. You don't have to breathe breathing becomes deeper.

38:39

Yeah, that's right.

38:51

Difference in the colors of the light, too, when you close your eyes, the light becomes more purple.

38:57

Okay. Mhm. What color purple? Give me the shade.

39:05

It just changed to red. Mhm. Okay.

39:13

So, how you're doing there?

39:23

Good. Well, I'm imagining that in some ways it would be very nice for you to just go to sleep,

39:48

you know, just completely let down and surrender and allow yourself to be completely heavy.

40:08

Mhm. I imagine it would be very nice for you right now.

40:28

Yeah And we're not going to do that right now, we're going to finish in a few minutes.

41:00

I want to acknowledge that that would be that would be good and I'd like that, that would

41:27

be something to be happy about, just let go entirely, let yourself become heavy Something

41:33

I would like to be able to give to you is that experience, even though I'm not going

41:59

to do that right now. I would like to do that.

42:31

And I want to tell you that this is very easy for me, you know, you don't feel too heavy.

42:36

It's very easy for me to carry whatever weight you're giving me. What do you feel right now? I just feel very relaxed and very I believe what you're saying

42:43

Good. and that, sort of, giving me permission to, even though I can't go to sleep right now and that heaviness, it's giving me permission to do that. Yeah.

42:49

Mhm. Okay. I'm glad. Okay, well, I'm going to finish up in a minute, I'm going to move away from you in a minute

42:58

just let you be on your own again. I do, I like this feeling of closeness with you and like you letting go and resting your head on me.

43:04

It's hard to pull away in a way. Yeah I like this feeling of closeness. It's very easy just to remain here very comfortable. And, reluctantly, I am going to pull away. Okay. I'm just going to lean away slowly. Alright.

43:10

Thank you. Yeah Thank you for Yeah. letting me take that position. And you look different. Yeah? Yeah

43:16

Mhm. Your face looks different. What do you feel?

43:23

I feel more feminine Good. I'm glad

43:32

which is good. Yeah. Yeah. That's right.

43:38

Mhm. Thank you for, you know, allowing me to do that.

43:46

Yeah. Mhm. Really, it was my pleasure. Mhm.

43:52

It felt very good to me too. There's some other feeling there, what is that?

44:00

I don't know. Well, there is let's see

44:13

It's okay. Yeah.

44:19

Mhm. Reluctance keeps coming up. Yeah Yeah.

44:24

Well, it is unfamiliar territory. Yeah. So, that was risk, that was new territory. Mhm.

44:30

Definitely. So, I also appreciate Mhm. the reluctance that goes with all of that. Mhm.

44:35

It's very unknown or unfamiliar or Right. Or not very often experienced.

44:41

Yeah, that's right, rare Yeah. relatively. Mhm.

44:47

Mhm. And I can imagine the reluctance might be also, once you do let go into that, it's hard to let go, you know, it's hard not to have it there, more of it.

44:54

Right. Yeah, or yeah. Yeah. Let that go as well. Yeah that's right.

45:02

But I feel okay, like Yeah.

45:08

everything's okay. Okay. I don't feel like I don't feel out of balance Good.

45:13

or anything like that. Okay. I feel balanced. Okay. Well, thank you for Mhm.

45:18

allowing me into your your world in that way. Thank you. I feel very close with you yeah

45:32

Mhm. Besides, there's a process now, kind of, for me, of stepping back.

45:41

Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Letting go, closing off.

45:47

Mhm. So, we're going to finish up now.

45:54

Okay. And invite some feedback. Okay, that sounds good.

46:01

Yeah. I feel like I need to do something else to, kind of, finish with you, but I'm not

46:07

sure what it is. Hmmm I don't know Do you need something right now or are you good? Are you alright?

46:21

Again, I'm feeling like I should take care of you right now. Oh, sorry, you know, okay. Okay, yeah, you're right Okay, so I'm going to take the initiative.

46:30

Okay. I'd like to give you a hug.

47:03

That sounds good.

47:14

How's that sound? Okay. Good.

47:23

Positive, good. Mhm. Mhm

47:28

Okay. That's good. Thank you.

47:34

Okay, so, feedback. I'm just going to go

48:43

49:15

a loo while we do that.

49:25

I feel like I need him here.

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Compiled And Edited By: Bhagirathi Nag

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